Re[4]: Yes, Let's do it! [GENERAL] [LIST-SPLIT]

[Brandon Ibach]

Quoting Jay R. Ashworth <jra "at" baylink.com>:
> You can filter by that; you've got procmail.
> 
> Right now, alas, I'm stuck with Windoze, and procmail, she doesn'a run
> so good there.
> 
   Thank you for providing another aspect of my point.  Not everyone
has good filtering options.  Filtering by way of separate lists,
possibly in combination with server-based restrictions, will almost
always be more powerful and flexible than most mail readers,
especially while most mail readers are made my Microsoft.

> Certainly; all these things are possible, but _why_?
> If you _had_ more than one list.  :-)
> 
   Certainly, you can filter on tags any which way you want to, but
_why_?  Let's stick to relevant questions, shall we?

> >    Of course, there are never any disadvantages, once you've made up
> > your mind, right?  The crippling disadvantage of tagging is that the
> > users *must* tag every message in order for it to work.
> 
> That was sort of a cheap shot, Brandon.
> 
   I'd only call it a cheap shot if you weren't disregarding the
disadvantages that exist simply because they don't apply to your
situation or way of doing things.

> And if you filter, you won't see their postings, becuase they didn't
> tag them... so you'll be avoiding them just fine, as far as I can see.
> Did I miss something there?
> 
> >    Further, the tags may very well be inconsistent.  Even a very
> > carefully designed filter won't catch every goofy variant of a tag.
> > However, if you say that you'll just filter everything out except for
> > those tagged with just the stuff you want, then why not just create a
> > separate list for that traffic?
> 
> <sigh>  I'm pretty sure I answered that question already.
> 
   Yes, you did miss something, and no, you haven't answered it.
Think of it this way: you only want to see messages on certain topics,
so you want to set up a specific tag that people should put on
messages about that topic, so that you can filter based on that tag.
My point is, why not just have them send that message to a specific
address, instead?

> >    And on the cross-posting line, what's to keep someone from just
> > throwing in so many tags that everyone will see it anyway?
> 
> Nothing... but at least there will only be one copy.  Anyone who gets
> annoyed by someone playing that game can simply filter them by name.
> 
   I'd hate to see the size of the filter-spec you'd get after a
while.  Why not let the server take care of that for you?

> Forgive my sounding elitist, maybe I've been doing this too long:
> sloppy taggers be damned.  If they want replies from picky filterers
> because they're better equipped to reply, then can learn.  This lowest
> common denominator shit just has to stop.
> 
   What, exactly, is causing you to think that I'm trying to make life
more difficult for you?  See below...

> I'll give you half a point on this one.  Is _email_ class bandwidth
> _really_ a problem in this day and age?  Citations please.
> 
   Actually, I've had a couple of ISPs tell me that email makes up
more of their bandwidth usage than anything else.

> So, we make things easier for the posters at the expense of requiring
> a lot of work for both the readers and the list administrators?  That
> doesn't sound like an equitable trade to me.  It's mostly the posters
> (question askers) that get the value, make 'em work for it.
> 
   How is this "a lot of work" for readers?  Citations, please.
Seriously, stop and think, for a moment, of the options.  Either you
subscribe to a few lists, based on your interests, which takes about
one minute, or you setup a bunch of filters, which would take at least
as long, if not an order of magnitude more.

> I've already espoused my opinion of digests, I think.  :-)
> 
   That's wonderful.  Don't use a digest list.  But for those of us
for whom a digest list *does* make sense, would it be too much to ask
for you to allow a different opinion?

   How about this... This whole argument is a non-issue.  Someone
suggested that there be a list which carries all of the messages
posted to any of the lists.  As long as the mailing list software
discards messages with duplicate Message-IDs, cross-posting is not an
issue, and you'll have exactly what you have today, with the added
benefit that the messages are automatically tagged (with subject
prefixes) according to which list they are sent to.  So, you can do
your filtering, and not have to go through the pain and agony of
changing your subscription status.  Agreeable?

-Brandon :)

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